This is the Technical Difficulties, we're playing Citation Needed.
Joining me today, he reads books y'know, it's Chris Joel.
Gary's line, just before Gary said it, so Gary's isn't funny, remember that.
Yeah.
Everybody's favourite Gary Brannan, Gary Brannan.
And now on ITV1, our new Saturday night entertainment game show,
join Stephen Mulhern in Get Out, That's My Trout.
And the bounciest man on the internet, Matt Gray.
And I'll be following up on ITV2 with your reaction.
In front of me I've got an article from Wikipedia and these folks can't see it.
Every fact they get right is a point and a ding
and there's a special prize for particularly good answers which is:
-They're getting better at that. -Yeah.
Today we are talking about the Crazy Eights incident.
The Crazy Eights or the Crazy Apes?
Because one of those sounds brilliant.
The Crazy Eights incident, also known as the CSX 8888 incident.
Is it Chinese, they like eights, don't they?
Oh, bloody hell.
No, you're completely and utterly wrong.
-It's a lucky number, isn't it? -Yes.
That would be a lucky number, but this is (a) not in China
and (b)... I nearly said two there.
This is… this is (a) not in China and (b) not lucky.
Was it unlucky?
-CSX transportation is the company in question. -Okay.
-A flight? -No.
Public transport?
-It's more of a freight carrier. -Is it a runaway train?
-Oh, it is. -Does it go around... damn it.
I wanted to do the whole first line.
Is it that film?
Oh, which film?
There was a film with the guy that played Kirk in the new Star Treks.
That would be Chris Pine.
Yes, I think, and it was all undercranked,
it's artificially sped up footage of American trains moving really slowly.
I saw about 10 minutes of that.
-It was terrible. It was amazing. -Yeah.
Was it that?
-Yes, it was. -Yes!
It's called, it's got a terrible pun name, hasn't it though?
-It's something like just Runaway, isn't it? -Runaway.
-Unstoppable. -Unstoppable, there we go.
Denzel Washington and Chris Pine, yes.
Yeah.
And you've skipped a huge amount of the article here,
because that is the film based on this incident.
So we've got a run… we've got a train what is running away?
-Yes. -And then you get at that rather than it's …
-Yes. -And not cos it scared, cos it naughty.
Now, if I remember from the film,
it was running away towards a city that had a very tight bend in it,
and there was something that it couldn't fall off and destroy,
- and it had terrible things inside it. - Now...
Why did your movie pitch career never take off, Matt?
Have you not heard me describing things before?
Yeah, but never so compelling.
You're right with some of that, it did have bad things in it.
Was it radiation-y?
-No. No, it was… -Was it chemical-y?
Yes. I'm going to give a point for that and I feel like I shouldn't.
Chemical-y bad things.
Yeah, thousands of gallons of phenol.
Is that a solvent?
-Phenolic acid. -Is it an acid?
I'm not, I'm not...
Can we not just get a runaway train of Gaviscon to hit it
-'cos that'd sort it out? -Oh!
Yeah, you're also right that the movie had Devil's Curve in the city of Stanton.
Is there actually a city of Stanton?
I don't know if there's a city of Stanton, there certainly isn't a Devil's Curve.
Is it… is it just a bad curve?
No, the train… the actual real train, which was CSX 8888, that was the registry number,
was not headed towards anything particularly dangerous.
So Hollywood found it vaguely boring but someone thought, 'Oh, if we…
'if we made this worse than it actually was, it would be a compelling kind of film?'
Yes.
I like the thought of someone sat at home with their kid's train set,
trying to think, 'How can I make this film exciting?'
And they just kick the little bit of track, and it bends and he goes,
"There we have it."
This is notable for one particular aspect of it,
but apart from the fact that there were no significant injuries or anything from it.
It's notable for one thing.
Had a film made about it.
-Two things. -Okay.
They tried to do the sort of stupid s*** that you see in the film
where they pull a train alongside,
and somebody leapt across to try and slow it down.
Yes.
Oh, right.
So someone having seen a film tried to do something they might see in a film.
Well, it was a little more thought out than that, but yes, this was rescued...
That is damning with such faint praise.
So first of all, what went wrong?
What's happening here at this place?
Did they not catch up to it and pull up next to it to do the… the jumpy thing?
How do you pull up next to it?
S***!
-Was it on a single track railway? -Yes.
Did it come up with all this idea, so we'll get this, we'll put it up, 'Oh...'
No, no, they knew what it was on. And it's also notable for how far it went.
Why is it running away?
Well, that's how the show works, Gary.
Gary, why was it running away?
Well, alright, if I zip my anorak up ever so slightly, they should have vacuum braking.
So if there's a break in the vacuum pipe, the brakes should come on.
So has the driver collapsed or something?
Oh, you so were close until the end.
-Yeah, I'll still give you a point because… -Hit the point button you dick!
This starts in a classification yard or a marshalling yard as it's known in the UK.
So that's where they move stuff about and put them on the…
the freight gets moved and…
-Yes. -Trains; trains are made up into trains.
Yeah.
Where a mummy train and a daddy train make a baby train.
There are different types of yard, what's a hump yard?
You shunt without connecting.
It's over a hump, it's a hill and it runs down via gravity.
And you can… you can brake it at the top
by popping things between the rails to catch the wheels, to slow them slightly,
someone in a big room, goes; a big lever and goes, "Erghrrr," like that,
-and they stop. -Goes what?
I can't do it again, it's already passed, hasn't it?
Yeah, there's another one… there's another one coming.
"Erghrrr."
It's a different lever, before anyone says anything else.
There's also a gravity yard.
I want to see the anti-gravity yard personally.
That's for moving them between tracks,
because then you can just shove them sideways gently.
It's the same thing, isn't it, it's just a hill, they run down them.
Yeah, it's literally: right, the trains are here, and you push them down the hill,
you start them going and then you just have to align all the points up
-and the switches up, so it goes the right way. -Now, is that where it went wrong?
-Yes. -Did they align them to the output
instead of to a siding, and then they just kept going?
So it's not actually a gravity yard here, it's a flat yard,
but the engineer on the train noticed that one of the switches, points, is misaligned.
-So what does he do? -Hit it with a big hammer.
Well, he can't brake fast enough, he knows
-the train's not going to stop in time. -Did he jump off?
Yes, he did.
Ah, now, what you’ve done there, mate, now what you've done there is you've…
you've left your train off,
and it's going all on its own,
at no point is this Thomas and the train will stop for not having a driver.
Yes, he did… he did actually apply the airbrake,
but the airbrake was disconnected,
because it's in the middle of a yard and they don’t activate it there.
Yes, yeah, yeah, and you might only have the engine brake which won't stop a full train.
Yes. But it did turn off the dead man's switch because the brake's pushed.
Now, that is very silly.
If you take the keys out, you can't actually stop it, can you?
No. Does anybody here know what a dynamic brake on a train is?
Oh God, is it … oh no.
It's what … that's what the APT had, isn't it?
That's, that's fluid dynamic brake, isn't it? Yeah.
That was liquid, that was a hydraulic brake, wasn't it?
A dynamic brake is using the throttle to power the brakes.
That's it, it recharges the brakes and goes by like the reserve energy,
because they are electric motors rather than just a diesel engine driving the wheels.
It's a diesel engine driving an electric motor and you use that to recharge the brake circuits.
-Yes. -Is it like using a flywheel as a brake?
-Yeah, a little bit. -Yeah, moving kinetic energy into the other system.
Sorry, I'm getting just a bit engineery-intrigued now.
No, that's fair.
I like the fact that they're all having these discussions
while the train was running away out of the yard behind them.
What happens if, for example, you fail to set the dynamic brake
and then send power to it?
Ah, now, does that just make the brakes not work even better?
No, it's just going to accelerate. -Oh s***.
-He'd just turned the throttle on. -Awesome.
Oh s***, you've just made it go faster there, mate.
-Yes. -And then he jumped off.
He... yes.
Now. Now, what he really did there…
-This is America, right? -Uh-huh.
The thing I know about America is that it's big, yeah.
-Yes. -Point!
So, and America has big long straight bits of railway with nothing.
-Yes. -Was this a diesel engine
and did they just wait for the diesel to run out?
They've got quite a bit of diesel on though, haven't they?
Yes. Did they just wait? They’ve got quite a bit of America too.
No, they didn't, but you’re along sort of the right lines, when I said this was notable...
Ha, 'lines'.
...when I said it was notable, I mean it was notable for something in particular about this.
Did they try and syphon the diesel out while it was driving?
Someone just comes up with a hosepipe, sticks it in and goes...
The brakes aren't working.
Is this the train that's travelled on its own the longest?
No. I don't know if it's officially the longest but it is certainly a very, very long distance.
It went for two hours at somewhere around fifty miles an hour.
Whoa!
That's nearly 100 miles.
Yes.
There are all sorts of movie plot threats and ideas that you've come up with here.
What are they actually going to try and do to it?
What's the practical solution to: runaway train?
Get one of those little carts.
Here we go.
What has the pumpy thing on and go dead fast so you catch up with it down a hill.
And then you climb up all along the top and get in the driver's cab and then, and turn it off.
Do that but with another locomotive.
Yes.
Actually you could just bring something out in front of it and brake it, right?
They also planned to do that, they didn’t actually need to do that in time.
-Did it crash by that point? -No.
No, what's… what's the plan here?
So first of all they use something called a portable derailer.
So they want to jump the wheels off the track so then it's grinding and more than driving,
and then it'll just slow down because it hasn't got enough grip.
Yeah. Well, more than that, it will knock the wheels off the track.
And just … I mean that's not a great place for a locomotive to be in?
At this point, you get the police coming out and throwing a stinger trap underneath it.
-Oh! -Trying to pop the tires… oh, it doesn't matter.
-Now… -Somebody's like, "what you did there"…
The police did try to do something to it.
-Shoot it. -Yes.
Because it's America and the police.
What with, a f***ing cannon?
Well, they were trying to hit something on it.
The fuel lines?
The brake?
-Not quite. -The driver.
That pillock who jumped off.
They're trying to... fire at the fuel... well, it's diesel so it won't ignite.
But, yeah, I suppose you could shoot the fuel lines. Or the tanks! The fuel tanks.
The emergency fuel cut-off switch, you know, that’s close enough.
They're trying to hit a switch.
Yes, it … it didn't work.
They're just dicking around, it's a moving f***ing target, isn't it?
So we now have: runaway train that has been shot at by the police.
Unsuccessfully shot at.
With the accelerator being a bit stuck down.
Yeah.
And the, the other brake being on, but essentially being completely burned out by this.
What’s the plan?
What do they go with? We have experienced railroad engineers here.
They put it in reverse somehow with the power of the mind.
You sort of suggested this earlier.
What, drive another vehicle, couple it and then use those brakes?
Yes.
So the two engineers, you know, train coming the other way, pulled off.
Oh, okay. I was going to say, coming the other way? Yeah.
Waited for that train to pass and then chased it.
That must have looked awesome.
Yes.
When was this, did they video it?
There is video of the runaway train but not of this actual moment.
-That's a real… that’s a massive oversight. -Is it the 70s?
2001.
Yeah, massive oversight, get a helicopter over this, you've got rights.
So an engineer with 31 years of service.
Nice, is it his last day before retirement?
I think it was in the film, it actually was in the film.
Oh, of course it f***ing was.
And a rookie conductor with one year's experience.
"But it'll never work!" "Listen to me kid, I am," looks down imaginary camera,
"the engineer."
Looks at picture of dead wife.
I watched that film thinking it was so formulaic, but it actually happened like that.
Yes, then the… the train master…
Oh! "Behold!"
"The train master."
Stood in front of it on the tracks and said, "Halt."
Is the train master Brunel?
No, it's Topham Hatt just with his little straight arms.
"You have been a very naughty engine."
Suddenly then they listen and Ringo has suddenly appeared in the back of the train to narrate this s***.
Wait a minute, did the young engineer try and go first,
and the old engineer said, "no, you've got too much to live for" at the last second?
Pull him out of the way and do it himself.
Yeah, train master, John Horsfeld, ran alongside the train.
Ran?
They've got it down to like 11 miles an hour now, so he sprints along…
Okay, fifty mile an hour. -Climbs aboard.
-That's still a quick run, that. -And shuts down the engine, yes.
They have another train upfront to… ready to try and…
Ram it.
Not quite ram it, but, you know, slow it down by braking.
-Ram it. -Ram it, fine, yes.
What happened to the engineer who first made the mistake, way way back?
So it's now stopped, they've recovered it, it's going back to the yard.
The engineer at the start, what happened to him?
He was made to lie down on the rails while they backed it up.
Ooh!
Did he have to walk all the way to pick it back up again?
It’s actually a bit harder to work out because they never released the name of the engineer.
Yeah, I don't think I would either.
Because in aviation, you don't do that, you don't go for blame, you go for,
let's work out what happened and then work out how to make it not happen again.
it's a blameless culture, whatever they call it.
-So then things get reported. -Yeah, you've actually…
Because in the end it's always systems or technology that's eventually caused the problem.
And if not, you think you're going to get blamed for something,
you're not going to report that something happened, then you don't get good safety.
Yeah, it's called a 'just culture'
and you've literally answered several of the questions I was about to ask.
-Have two points. -Yeah!
Alright, so what's happened to the engine in the end?
Has it been destroyed as a warning to others?
Is it in a retirement home? What are they called? Museum?
Those are two very different things.
A retirement home for objects is a museum.
Okay. Okay, right yeah.
He's not wrong.
But neither is he right.
But that's… that doesn't work the other way around.
Like a retirement home is not a museum of people.
No.
Several railway museums tried to buy it but officials replied,
they "did not feel it worthy of preservation."
-Yes, because… -Please forget this.
The train would tell the other trains how to run away.
Oh.
Dangerous knowledge.
And it was torn down and rebuilt as part of a regular rebuild process.
So it is now... bits of it are now in other places.
It got hung, drawn and quartered.
I am... yeah, basically, yeah, that's pretty much what hung, drawing and quartering was.
I've got the idea now, of all these bits from other trains and these bits are sentient
and suddenly at some point, and here's the second film...
Lots of trains run away.
I'm getting a sense this second one's written by Stephen King.
Ideally me, but, yeah, alright, I'll sell the rights.
So at the end of the show, congratulations, Gary, you win this one.
You win the rights to your screenplay being produced.
No, sorry.
You win a shirt that exposes your midriff sponsored by a series of Korean boy bands.
It's a K-pop crop top.
With that we say thank you to Chris Joel,
to Gary Brannan,
to Matt Gray.
I've been Tom Scott, and we'll see you next time.